Contract-To-Hire Horror Story
I heard a contract-to-hire horror story yesterday, but I heard it third-hand. Apparently an individual took a CTH position, did quality work, and is considered a likable guy, but he was not hired when the contract period was up. This person later found out the same company has done this before.
As I said, it's a third-hand story. I've never met the person in the story, so I can't speak towards that person's technical skills or likability. I know economic times are difficult right now, but I would like to believe companies have not sunk so low as to dangle CTH positions in front of people, get what they want out of them, then cut bait.
Has anyone heard similar stories? Is this more common than I am imagining?
~Chris
Comments
Hi Chris, Yes, recently I
Hi Chris,
Yes, recently I experienced the same thing. Recently, I was on a six-month to perm contract. About 3 1/2 months into the assignment, the hiring manager asked if I was interested in joining them permanently. I said yes, but I mentioned that I was also happy working contract. Suddenly, without any warning signs, two weeks to the date, my agent called me and told me the assignment was over. He asked me not to contact them, nor to go get my things from the office, and that he might have two new assignments. After a week, I contacted my agent to find out about the new assignments and he didn't return my email nor my call.
I know the economics are poor, but that shouldn't prevent common courtesy and professionalism, not to mention just plain honesty. I am really disappointed in my agent's lack of forthrightness. It has tones of "use them and lose them."
Sadly as it may seem, it
Sadly as it may seem, it sounds like your agency may have screwed you. It is a huge red flag that they asked you not to contact the hiring manager even to pick up your stuff (which you've got a legal right to retrieve -- did your agent make arrangements for your property to be delivered to you?). It is even worse that the agency is no longer returning your call. They've got something to hide. My guess is the reason why they don't want you to talk to the client is that they probably had some kind of squabble over how much the fee would be for your hire conversion. The agency probably got greedy (or at least the client thought they did) and got themselves fired and you got caught in the crossfire.
At this point if the agency is not returning your calls and you don't have your property (no matter how minor it is), then I wouldn't feel bad about contacting the client to make arrangements to retrieve it. Talk of other placements sounds like it was just to string you along and keep you cooperative as long as possible. See if you can (carefully) get the client's side of things and try to smooth things over from your perspective as much as possible. You have no idea what the agency told the client. They could have blamed it all on you. Obviously that is a stretch, but given their behavior, maybe not a big one. As much as possible you need to try to protect your reputation.
I've heard it second and
I've heard it second and third hand from quite a few people, so I think it does indeed happen. I think companies these days think they will get higher quality candidates if they offer CTH instead of a straight contract. There is some merit to that thinking because there are a lot of people who will consider contracts only as a last resort but may consider CTH because it offers some hope of stable, long term employment. I'm one of those people actually, I would much prefer a perm placement from day one, but I'm much more likely to consider CTH than a straight contract.
CTH is something I did once
CTH is something I did once earlier in my career -- most of my work is "regular" contract or consulting. CTH is a "try it before you buy it" approach both for the contractor and for the organization. On my one CTH engagement, after a year, I converted. A year later, the organization was sold/bought/merged and, although I was offered a choice of "other" positions in the new organization, I moved on with a contract elsewhere. No "horror stories" in that.
So... that's my history; now for comments.
Many times, organizations require CTH workers to accept lower rates than straight contract. Usually something equivalent to the (if converted) FTE rate. It means the contractor does not get the usual differential to pay for benefits (health care, and the like) not received.
Personally, I do not play in that sandbox. Contract is contract regardless and the rate should reflect the reality. In other words, there should be no differential between a "regular" contract rate and CTH rate. If there is, move on.
There is no "right to convert" in CTH. The contractor can decide they don't like the organization or the position... or decide they like something else more and move on. The organization can decide to convert or not; extend or not. It's a no-fault situation either way.
In the first story: It isn't a "horror story" unless the organization was low-balling the rate. If the contractor received market rate for the assignment, worked through the contract and was neither extended nor converted, there is no harm / no foul. In a way, CTH is like an extended job interview. As with all interviews, sometimes an offer is made; other times not. That is the contract world.
CTH does not mean an organization is making an offer of a permanent position. If that is the expectation in the contractor's mind, it is wrong. If the organization "tries it" but doesn't "buy it," that's their right. The contractor has the same right.
The second story is much more disturbing. Even though a contract can be canceled at any time by either party (no harm / no foul), it is very uncommon to see it happen in this way. The outcome here may or may not have anything to do with the CTH status of the contract. Hard to tell from the information shared.
William W. (Woody) Williams
Project Management Consultant
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w3src Consulting
The worst I've heard was a
The worst I've heard was a local quasi-governmental private company near Austin where a friend was working a one month contract through an agency. Two weeks in (and hence two weeks left), the agency put him in for a follow-on contract (which is a good thing - they were trying to keep him employed!). That day, the HR Manager called him in, don't recall whether they had a contract clause to back it up or not, but basically told him he shouldn't be looking around while he was working there, and sent him home that day. Even his manager was surprised, so I don't think it was a question of competence, but rather a completely arbitrary set of rules designed to keep that iron grip on employees and contractors. Sure made me want to put my resume in there :).
Actually this is pretty
Actually this is pretty common for employees whether contract or permanent. Organizations, unless arrangement have been made in advance, are (shall we say) less than amenable to employees or contractors actively seeking a job while still employed / contracted. It's a binary thing -- off/on: "You're either with us or against us."
There doesn't have to be a "contract clause."
William W. (Woody) Williams
Project Management Consultant
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w3src Consulting
I can understand employers
I can understand employers getting cranky about a regular employee who is actively job seeking, maybe even a contractor who is on a long term contract... but someone who is on a 1 freaking month contract? That is just silly. Anyone who is working short term contracts has to always be scrambling to find their next gig. Down time between gigs really kills you when you are working that way, so you need to have the next one ready to go as soon as the current one ends.
Anyway, the place you're describing sounds suspiciously like ERCOT. They are notorious for bad treatment of contractors and they seem to churn through people like they are making butter. I've known quite a few people who have worked over there and I've been approached by recruiters for agencies a couple of times over the past 7 or 8 years to be placed there, but I've always passed for various reasons.
That's the problem with
That's the problem with blind obedience to "procedure," "process," or "protocol." Long-term, short-term, one month... all the same to PHB.
William W. (Woody) Williams
Project Management Consultant
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w3src Consulting
And here I thought I was
And here I thought I was being careful not to disclose too much about the employer . . .
Ah, I wouldn't worry about
Ah, I wouldn't worry about it. You can blame me for "outing" them if they complain. I can only speak for myself and not Matt, but as far as I'm concerned they are more than welcome to come and add their $0.02 in defense if they want. They are big boys, they should be able to take a little criticism.
My agent did 'immediately'
My agent did 'immediately' get all my things from the office for me.
My partner and manager at the company, just as shocked as I was, mailed and delivered a CD with my latest publications. They were just as kind, but careful not to disclose any details, except that the agency had handled my release rather poorly. So, that is all I know, and perhaps for the safety of all their jobs (at the company), we will never know all the details.
I prefer contract assignments, because I spent 12 years at a company rather bored to death and feeling very unethical about having a salary for doing practically nothing.
Contract/CTH assignments challenge my skills to the extreme! For example, learn the technology at super-human speed, use it, teach it, write/design beautiful easy-to-use instructions.
That's just me. When my children were younger, the benefits were important to me. But, they no longer are.
So, anyone know of someone looking for a ethical, dynamic technical writer? Just hook us up.
Respectfully,
L. Kendall Johns * Kendall@webpubs.us *
http://www.webpubs.us
* Technical Writer and Web Publisher * Austin, TX USA
That is really ugly.
That is really ugly. Wow.
Remind me to avoid that "agent" in the future ;~)
William W. (Woody) Williams
Project Management Consultant
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w3src Consulting
Do we have cyber-whispers? ;)
Do we have cyber-whispers? ;)
Tweet maybe? Not too hard
Tweet maybe? Not too hard to find my email either if you are looking for it (hint - LinkedIn).
I'm glad to hear you got
I'm glad to hear you got your property back. Its too bad nobody is talking. It is hard to do any kind of post-mortem analysis of the situation to see how you can improve or at least avoid that kind of situation in the future with no input.
Anyway, benefits to me are important even though I have no children, and rarely have ever needed or used them myself. One major experience taught me that... My first wife was diagnosed with cancer and passed away after about a year. During the time she was being treated she also had surgery, several ER visits and other hospitalizations. Between lost income due to her working, the deductables, co-pays and other things insurance doesn't cover plus meds, even with health insurance it ran up tens of thousands of dollars in bills which I am still working on paying off several years later. Unfortunately while I had a large amount of life insurance on me and my wife would have been well taken care of if our positions had been switched, we had only had her employer's base coverage on her, which didn't nearly begin to cover closing out her estate. That was a huge mistake, I didn't take advantage of spouse life insurance I could have gotten relatively cheap from my employer which would have left me in much better shape financially.
I hope that nobody else ever goes through what I have or makes the mistake of not being adequately covered and gets caught like I did. Even at that, over the years when I've been forced to work contract, I gambled even more and had basically no health or life insurance. I'd have been financially ruined pretty much permanently had things happened during one of those times.
Thank you for sharing your
Thank you for sharing your sad story. I truly sympathize with you and the loss of your wife. It seems to me, that sometimes, life is one gamble after another. Hope yours has been more luckier. ;)
Well, life is a gamble,
Well, life is a gamble, sure... but there are things you can do to hedge your bets and minimize your risk. I share my experiences with the hopes that someone might not have to learn some of the harsh lessons I have the hard way.
Anyway, I've since re-married and I'm very happy other than being saddled with more debt than I'd like and being in a career field that has been suffering badly for the past few years. Once I get myself dug out of the hole I am in now and if/when the tech job market ever stabilizes things will be looking up for me.
Yes, things will look up for
Yes, things will look up for you and I pray real soon. I heard a joke, I think is appropriate for all of us during this challenging time:
An old man owned a donkey. One day the donkey fell in a hole. The old man saw the donkey in the hole and couldn't figure out a way to get him out. So, he thought he would put him out of his misery by burying him alive.
Well, the donkey was braying and struggling and putting up a tremendous struggle to get out of the hole. But nothing worked.
Soon, some friends of the old man saw the old man shoveling dirt in the donkey's hole, so they thought they would help the old man out. Each got a shovel and started shoveling dirt in the hole. Well, the old, tired donkey started stepping on each shovel of dirt and eventually he was able to step right out!
I've heard that one.
I've heard that one. Sometimes I think they wait until I'm sleeping to start shoveling the dirt on me though...
We expect transparency from
We expect transparency from Wall Street, but here we're all being so coy about specifics. There are a lot of people, very talented people, not working right now and hearing a story or two of people being used/abused only helps if we know who to stay away from. If a company tossed you, why does the company remain anonymous? If a middleman mucked it up and you got tossed out with his garbage, the rest of us should avoid this guy.
As much as I agree on a
As much as I agree on a certain level, one has to proceed carefully when "outing" companies as there is a very real possibility of retaliation amongst other issues.
Robert Half Technology,
Robert Half Technology, Austin TX. 2009.
Unfortunately while I'm sure
Unfortunately while I'm sure there are some good recruiters that work for them, I've heard more complaints about this agency chain than most others. Part of that is they are big and all over the country, but also a lot of the complaints are related to certain ways they do business.
Oh... and as I was saying
Oh... and as I was saying about repercussions related to "outing" people and/or agencies... I just now noticed that RHT people have been looking at my LinkedIn profile today. Coincidence, or are they watching? Well, I guess that if I get blackballed for anything I've said here (pretty innocuous) then I will just look at it as having dodged a bullet.
Anyway, if anyone would like to speak in RHT's defense (I can't imagine they'd come forward) then y'all are more than welcome. Or if you've got questions about what the complaints I've heard are, I could elaborate I suppose.
How can you tell who is
How can you tell who is looking at your L-in profile? I'm looking for a setting, but I don't see it.
Along the right side of the
Along the right side of the page you will see something like:
"Who’s viewed my profile?
Your profile has been viewed by 15 people in the last 15 days. Yesterday, you appeared in search results 14 times.
See more »"
And when you click on the "See more" you will get something like this:
"Who’s Viewed My Profile
* What is this?
* Edit Visibility Settings
Your profile has been viewed by 15 people in the last 15 days, including:
* Someone in the Computer Software industry
* Someone in the Staffing and Recruiting industry from United States
* Someone in the Web Development function in the Information Technology and Services industry from Des Moines, Iowa Area
* Recruiting Manager at Robert Half Technology
* Recruiting Manager at Robert Half International
To see more people, upgrade your account."
Thanks. Your directions are
Thanks. Your directions are for the Home page, and I had to delete an app to get it to show. Apparently, there is a default how many app modules display in the right column. I sure appreciate you turning me on to this.
Please name names, but only
Please name names, but only if what you say is "provably true". (That is a general defense against libel, and quite effective.)
Don't be shy; the only way to stop bad behavior is to get the word out, and Matt has given us each a loud voice through door64.
- John
This guy made a good
This guy made a good impression on me yesterday:
Jeff Hennigan
Sr. Recruiter
Kforce Technology Staffing
512.231.3626 ph
He's trying to fill the position described below, which apparently pays about $50/hour. I have 3 times the requisite education and experience, and charge accordingly, so I had to pass on this one; it seems like a fair rate for that particular level.
- John
C++ Software Engineer
The position is contract to hire and comes with a fair market rate and benefits. Planned conversion to permanent is from six months to one year. Upon permanent offer our client offers "best in class" benefits and compensation.
Our client specializes in radio frequency signal geo-location using their own Unix-based sensors. They are based in North Austin and offer a fun and challenging work environment. They have a strong customer base and excellent long-term prospects.
Currently, they are at about 130 people. The majority of personnel here have electrical engineering, computer science, physics, or math backgrounds. They are in an extremely niche technology environment, and often produce one-of-a-kind capabilities their customers.
Location: North Austin (Arboretum area)
Special Requirements:
A Bachelor’s degree is required in a "hard science" like Computer Science, Mathematics, Electrical Engineering, Physics, etc. A high GPA from a top tier institution is a major plus.
In addition:
Required skills/experience
Desired skills/experience
Primary responsibilities
Interview Process
Thanks for sharing... Might
Thanks for sharing... Might be just perfect for someone around here, C++ opportunities have been few and far between the past few years.
I don't have clearance or any experience with signal processing so I'm not a 110% match for sure. Pay is as you note not completely unreasonable, but little lower than what I'd normally want too. Also as I've said before around here, contract work is not my favorite, but if I wasn't currently working I might consider it.
I one had a bad experience
I one had a bad experience with almost everyone on the planet. Yes, I've been in contracting/consulting that long.
Where does that leave me? What options do I have?
Mark Twain once said, when referring to discrimination and prejudice, that he was color-blind, gender-blind, and creed-blind. That he had found everyone to be members of the human race and nothing could be worse than that.
That's really it. It's just people. Some good; some bad.
There's an old adage in sales that's appropriate here: "Some will; some won't; who cares, who's next."
Robert Half might be the "evil empire" one day and then the greatest thing since "slice whatever" the next.
Move one.
Who's next?
But always keep in mind that's it is "people" we are dealing with... not some corporate conspiracy.
William W. (Woody) Williams
Project Management Consultant
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w3src Consulting
The thing with agencies is
The thing with agencies is there are some that people seem to have a lot more issues with than others. Does that mean you shouldn't answer if they call? Not necessarily, but it does mean that when you are talking to them you need to be extra careful. There have for sure been some people over the years who've had good experiences with RHT, or no matter what they'd have been out of business a long time ago.
Oh, and problems may not be a corporate "conspiracy", but bad corporate policy can certainly make dealing with some agencies a pain. There are certain things that RHT is known for that I've personally experienced that have made them less than my favorite agency to deal with. And it generally hasn't been the people, I've found that RHT tends to employ personable folk... albeit they seem to hire a lot of newbies and go through them quickly. Look at recruiter profiles on LinkedIn and see how many seasoned recruiters used to work for them. I realize that the individual recruiters and account reps don't have much input into corporate policies.
The bigger the agency, the
The bigger the agency, the more people they have on staff, and the larger their reach, the more "issues" reported. Robert Half is big; it's "numbers."
I would give more credence to one or two really bad experiences with a small local firm than to 50 or 60 with a huge national organization. What I would really like to see (and is impossible to compile) is a ratio of good to bad. The total bad and total good is not particularly helpful especially with large firms.
So, what corporate policies at RHT do you find painful?
William W. (Woody) Williams
Project Management Consultant
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w3src Consulting
The biggest complaints that
The biggest complaints that are generally lodged against them are that they are notorious for "resume phishing". They also like to do face to face interviews with candidates even when they don't have real jobs for them and they like to have people take 3+ hour personality tests and skills assessments, which are often not even well suited to the candidate's background. This way of doing things appears to be due to corporate policies because the same complaints are made about just about every office.
As you note, it is virtually impossible to get any kind of empirical data since the quality of experience of a candidate is always going to be subjective, but if you talk to a lot of job seekers and search through a lot of forums you will start to see a pattern emerge of very similar complaints from a lot of different people all over the country. It is sometimes amazing how consistent the stories are.
There are quite a few
There are quite a few outfits that like face-to-face interviews with candidates before any jobs are available. That is something I don't mind as long as they are serious about building the relationship. Yes, it takes a little time -- usually 30 minutes or so but can be worthwhile. I've done hundreds of similar interviews and don't complain about it.
The personality and skills testing is a different matter. Actually went through that with RHT at one point in the past. Also with other firms. They are, for the most part, easily "fudged" by intelligent people and the results can be, shall we say, a matter of opinion to some degree. I suspect most highly experienced people have taken a number of personality tests and, just my opinion, they are not likely to change my life or offer any deep insight ;~)
However, if the biggest complaint is RHT, through corporate policy, tends to "waste" some our job hunting time, that's actually not too bad. I'll gladly accept that kind of time wasting over more nefarious possibilities. It's probably one of those things we tend to complain about a lot more if we don't get placed as a result than if we do, huh.
William W. (Woody) Williams
Project Management Consultant
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w3src Consulting
I'm not trying to defend or
I'm not trying to defend or convict anyone here, but I do have to make a comment about the note "They also like to do face to face interviews with candidates even when they don't have real jobs for them...". I also like to meet people in person even when I may not have an immediate job for them. It helps me to put a face with a name, and to remember those people later on when I do have a fit. It's part of relationship building, which is something I see many of you complain about a lack of when it comes to recruiters. Someone I personally have met face to face is going to stand out in my mind more than someone I've only spoken to on the phone. I'm also very upfront with potential candidates about this fact. So, if your problem is that they are pretending to have a job for you when they don't and ask you to come in, that is one thing... the issue there is the lying. Otherwise I see nothing wrong with meeting face to face. Why would anyone be opposed to that?
You are right, it is the
You are right, it is the deception that is the problem.
Worse than that, many of the complaints I've seen about RHT is that some of their offices are in buildings where candidates have to pay to park, and RHT doesn't reimburse or validate. That makes those 3 hours spent taking personality and skills tests of dubious value more painful when the candidate is paying $5-12 parking plus their gas money to do it.
I don't usually have the time or extra money to spend on gas to meet with someone if they don't have an actual opportunity to talk about. I also have met a few recruiters at the various networking events, and I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with relationship building in general, but it works better when both parties are putting something into it, not putting all the burden on the candidate. If a recruiter wants to meet me they could offer to meet the candidate somewhere convenient to them, offer to buy them lunch or something. Don't laugh -- its happened, albeit with the realities of the current job market and its effects on recruiter's bottom lines not lately.
I have taken many many
I have taken many many candidates to lunch, to coffee, and offered to meet them here in my office or offsite, very very often in whatever capacity is more convenient for them. I can only speak for myself here on those things. As a friendly reminder, on the job seeker's side, we are offering a free service to you. Just because I don't have a spot for you today doesn't mean I won't have one tomorrow or next week or 6 months from now even. If you don't have the time or gas money to spend on me, that's your prerogative of course, but I hope you do realize that the burden should be somewhat equally shared sometimes. I am more than willing to go out of my way, but please realize that this is of cost to us and we as a company are not reimbursed for such things by our clients. The relationship building should go both ways. If I don't have a fit for you today, I'm still taking time out of my day and time away from looking for people that I do have a fit for. I'm just hoping to offer a different perspective here. And for what it's worth, we do have free parking :)
Sunni, Good to hear from
Sunni,
Good to hear from you, as always.
I always prefer a personal, relationship building approach. I will pay for parking, if necessary. Parking and mileage along with other job search expenses are tax deductible, after all ;~) and I can always use some of that.
I want to put a face with that recruiter's name and be able to judge for myself their abilities and personality. It's not a burden and meeting someone in their office is actually pretty darned convenient. I'd rather see someone on "their turf" than at Starbucks. I want to see the office and the other people there.
If you place me, then we can "do lunch sometime." Otherwise your office, with or without parking, is fine ;~)
Laying my burdens down,
William W. (Woody) Williams
Project Management Consultant
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w3src Consulting
Thanks, Woody!
Thanks, Woody!